<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1362</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/18/99 8:29:25 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 18 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1362<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: modern roleplayers<BR>
Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
The naming of things<BR>
Re: Nightmare Passengers<BR>
Re: Traveller pronounciation guide<BR>
Re: Traveller pronounciation guide<BR>
re: Traveller Pronunciation Guide<BR>
MTU Imperial Justice (was: IMoJ)<BR>
Re: Traveller Pronunciation Guide<BR>
Sten series<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: Riot Control Agents<BR>
Re: modern roleplayers<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
OT:  AD$D Forgotten Realms<BR>
Re: Travelleresque Fiction<BR>
Re: AD$D Forgotten Realms<BR>
RE: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Re: off to the Races<BR>
Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:09:37 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: modern roleplayers<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:08:00 -0500 (EST), "Chris Seamans"<BR>
<semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>My apologies for sending this to the list... I couldn't find the original<BR>
>posts in the thread, and I'm hoping that it finds the right people. I will<BR>
>gladly take it offlist.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that's where it started, was offlist; I'm the "Jeff" in<BR>
that thread. Things are a little ...unsatisfactory... at the<BR>
moment in my real life, else I would have already summarized the<BR>
thread and invited comment - Kyle and I were having this<BR>
discussion rooted in a message he'd sent to the Freelance<BR>
Traveller feedback address.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:33:17 -0600<BR>
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
<BR>
And you all realize we will have to a waterfowl supplement...<BR>
Just for the halibut.<BR>
<BR>
This will include rules for additional birds, and new combat <BR>
manuevers of course.<BR>
<BR>
Fuel scoops by Pelicans and cranes<BR>
Martial ducking for cover<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
and answers for these pressing questions<BR>
does Hard of Herring count as a physical disadvantage or as<BR>
poverty?<BR>
Is Old Coot a psychological Disadvantage or an Age Disadvantage?<BR>
<BR>
is going completely quackers a sideaffect of reading this e-mail?<BR>
or do you all have trouts about my sanity?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh<BR>
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf<BR>
ADD/ADHD Advocate<BR>
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:18:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: The naming of things<BR>
<BR>
Ladies and gentlemen. I need your names.<BR>
<BR>
While I'm an utter genius at most things (I'm also very humble), I simply<BR>
cannot come up with worthwhile names for NPCs and the like.  So rahter than<BR>
go diving in the San Francisco Yellow Pages, I thought I'd ask here if<BR>
anyone wouldn't mind being immortalized as a NPC in Ground Forces.<BR>
<BR>
If you wouldn't mind this, drop me a line off-list.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 16:48:46 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Nightmare Passengers<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 10:01:33 -0500<BR>
> From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
> <BR>
> Craig Berry writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >The Bradys (Mike & Carol, Greg, Peter, Bobby, Marcia, Jan,<BR>
> >Cindy, plus Alice)<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> 	I can't tell you how much it scares me that you can name the<BR>
> 	entire family...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it terrifies *me*.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:59:15 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller pronounciation guide<BR>
<BR>
On 11/16/99 at 10:10 AM,  JDoch226@aol.com said:<BR>
<BR>
>How do you say Efate?  Boughene? Pscias?  <BR>
<BR>
Lots of interesting variations.  My take:<BR>
<BR>
Efate    E fate  <long E> <BR>
<BR>
Boughene  Bow in   <long o><BR>
<BR>
Pscias  <silent P> ski as  <long i short a long s><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:21:24 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller pronounciation guide<BR>
<BR>
On 11/16/99 at 11:29 AM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>I always judge that there are many ways to say a single name, due to<BR>
>>dialect differences and such. Also, lots local names for the same system<BR>
>>might be in use, due to different languages, cultural reasons et al.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, and how much fun is it to have a local refer to a system<BR>
as "size" when giving the PC's information.  He means Pscias, but<BR>
the PC's know that Pscias is pronounceed "P-says" and the system<BR>
named Ciches in the next subsector is pronounced "size." <g><BR>
<BR>
>One name that illustrates this well is "Ivan".  In its natural<BR>
>russian, is pronounced "EE-vahn".  In the U.S., we say "EYE-van".<BR>
<BR>
In this part of the US, we say Eye-vin and yes there are still<BR>
people down here that say Eye-tal-yon for Italian.  <BR>
<BR>
Finally, I thought *everybody* knew that EE-vahn is how you<BR>
pronounce Yvonne.  I had four Yvonnes (three female, one male) in my<BR>
high school class.  <g><BR>
<BR>
>Now I wonder how those pesky Vargr would say it?  <BR>
<BR>
"Errr Ruff!" <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:49:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Traveller Pronunciation Guide<BR>
<BR>
Jdoch226 said:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
How do you say Efate?  Boughene? Pscias?  <BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
F-Eight, emphasis on second syllable.<BR>
<BR>
Bo-geen, emphasis on first syllable with hard 'g' starting the second.<BR>
<BR>
Sigh-as, emphasis kind of mixed.<BR>
<BR>
Note:<BR>
IMTU, the Imperium has a list of defined pronunciations for all<BR>
Imperial Systems, Planets and even Starports. These pronunciations<BR>
are encoded into every starship Library program, with the intent<BR>
to forestall confusion in the giving of orders to military units.<BR>
These defined pronunciations are matched up with defined spellings<BR>
and locations, so an Admiral should never order his Commodore to<BR>
set course for Algine and end up heading for Elgin.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, this doesn't stop people from having their own names,<BR>
slang terms and pronunciations for the planets they live on and<BR>
such. It's not unusual for the use-names to vary from the <BR>
"official names", though the two usually were once the same.<BR>
The "official name" tends to get stuck, frozen in bureacracy and<BR>
exact audio recordings, while the use-name varies, but any Navy,<BR>
Scout or Merchant officer should know the official version.<BR>
It would be better, of course, to know both.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:16:20 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: MTU Imperial Justice (was: IMoJ)<BR>
<BR>
>Robert said:<BR>
>>>I think there was an article, "Law in the Imperium," back in<BR>
>>>Challenge, which spoke about the Imperial Ministry Of Justice (IMOJ)<BR>
>>>and gave some statistics for the number of agents.<BR>
>[snip]<BR>
>>There was. Unfortunately, the article reads very much like a summary of<BR>
>>common law as it exists in America.<BR>
>[snip]<BR>
>>Extremely disappointing, especially when you consider all the possibilities<BR>
>>that were ignored.<BR>
><BR>
>Would you like to elaborate? Give us some new ideas about the MoJ, since its<BR>
>canon is patchy.<BR>
<BR>
OK, here goes.  As far as I know, my take on this doesn't contradict any<BR>
Classic Traveller canon (except the article). I totally ignore IRIS, as<BR>
that was a variant (according to the original IRIS article). Besides, I<BR>
think the whole idea of IRIS as presented was silly.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial law is fairly narrow, and not particularly concerned about<BR>
individuals. Remember, the Imperium sanctions _wars_. Philosophically, I<BR>
see the Imperium as concerned with "peace, order, and good government" on<BR>
the broadest scale. Justice is not particularly an issue. If the planet<BR>
Barghest conquers the planet Fretgan in a short, sharp war the local<BR>
Imperial representative may well let it stand. If Tukera sabotages the<BR>
players' free trader during a tradewar, the Imperium isn't particularly<BR>
bothered.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial courts are inquisitorial, not adversarial. The judge takes an<BR>
active role, with an emphasis on discovering the truth. He may ask<BR>
questions, direct investigations, and so forth.<BR>
<BR>
The judge is always a noble: although the judge is technically the Imperial<BR>
noble in who's fief the crime took place, he often deligates his authority<BR>
to another noble. Respected commoner jurists are ennobled for this task,<BR>
and retain their noble rank after retirement (although these titles are not<BR>
hereditary). Training in the law is _not_ required for Imperial justices;<BR>
what _is_ required is a tenacious ability to uncover the truth coupled with<BR>
an incorruptible nature.<BR>
<BR>
Prosecuting and defense counsels are usually present. Their task is to<BR>
present information and to ensure that the law is followed. Unlike American<BR>
practice, a counsel is forbidden to misrepresent the fact,  In particular,<BR>
if a defense counsel knows, or has good reason to believe, that his client<BR>
is guilty then he may not plead innocence. (Mitigating circumstances, pleas<BR>
for leniency, and so forth are perfectly in order.)<BR>
<BR>
Precedent is not legally binding, although it is usually used as a<BR>
guideline. The emphasis is always on the _intent_ of the law, rather than<BR>
exact wording. This results in some inequities, although it closes many<BR>
loopholes.<BR>
<BR>
Appeals may always be made to the noble's leige lord, including up the<BR>
chain to the Emperor.  The higher noble is under no obligation to hear the<BR>
case; indeed, most appeals are denied. (The operative philosophy is<BR>
"promote good men and trust their judgement.")<BR>
<BR>
Costs are born by the plaintifs, not the Imperium. This disadvantages<BR>
poorer individuals. Mitigating against this is the inquisitorial nature of<BR>
the court: the costs of any investigations ordered by the judge are born by<BR>
the judge (part of the cost of running a noble court), and as the judge is<BR>
after the truth a poor defendant _or_ prosecutor needs merely to convince<BR>
the judge that the investigation is critical to uncovering a relevant fact.<BR>
<BR>
On that note, charges in an Imperial court are brought not by the Imperium<BR>
but by individuals. This means that theoretically the players could<BR>
prosecute a Tukera executive for treason. This is a rare event, as the<BR>
consequences of bringing a frivolous charge are severe, and are born by the<BR>
individual bringing the charge.  If an organization wishes to lay a charge<BR>
then a member of that organization must do so as an individual.<BR>
<BR>
A noble may demand a trial by his peers, in which case a jury is assembled:<BR>
the nobles in this jury must be of equal rank, the judge must be of a<BR>
higher rank. The judge still directs the investigation, and the jury may<BR>
ask questions and request investigations (although the judge may decide<BR>
that the investigation is not warranted). The jury is chosen by the judge;<BR>
although custom dictates that the closest nobles who can attend will make<BR>
up the jury this is not always followed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The Ministry of Justice is not, as described in the Challenge 50 article,<BR>
an interstellar FBI. (For one thing, add up the number of agents required<BR>
to have one per 100,000 people, then add in the support staff. Yikes.)<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, the Ministries are a counterpoise between the nobility and the<BR>
megacorporations. The Emperor balances this triad. The Ministries are a<BR>
tool for doing what is necessary for the gopod of the Imperium, yet falls<BR>
outside the purview of the nobility and is not profitable enough for the<BR>
megacorporations. In a sense the Ministries are a bureaucratic equivalent<BR>
to the Imperial Services.<BR>
<BR>
The Ministry of Justice is concerned with enforcing Imperial laws and<BR>
regulations. They deal only with matters that affect the Imperium, and only<BR>
when those matters are not being handled by another body. Thus, the<BR>
supression of piracy is a Navy duty, while an MoJ agent will be more<BR>
concerned with tracking down how the pirates are able to operate (ie. which<BR>
world is providing covert support). While MoJ agents have broad powers they<BR>
have little in the way of force. If force is required the Navy is brought<BR>
in.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Imperial laws are, as I said before, mostly concerned with preserving the<BR>
Imperium. As such they are more concerned with subsectors than individuals.<BR>
Actions count for all, motivations for nothing. (Mitigating circumstances<BR>
and mistakes are used as reasons for leniency, but there is not<BR>
_requirement_ for leniency. A man who accidentally kills a Duke may be<BR>
executed for treason, although if the judge's investigation shows that it<BR>
was a genuine accident then he may well not be punished at all.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Imperial crimes are:<BR>
<BR>
Treason. This, technically, includes refusing an order of the Emperor (or<BR>
an Imperial Warrant-holder), or killing a leige-sworn noble acting in His<BR>
name.  Comes in different flavours, from High to Common, depending on the<BR>
offense and circumstances.<BR>
<BR>
Piracy. This is restraint-of-trade by force. Note that while tradewar is an<BR>
accepted safety valve there is no legal level, merely custom, and that a<BR>
corporate officer who declares a tradewar runs the risk of being personally<BR>
charged if it goes too far. (Which leads to lots of nice subplots ablout<BR>
dead men and tales...)<BR>
<BR>
War. This is, generally, conquest at the interstellar level. In general the<BR>
Imperium allows low-intensity conflicts to continue as long as they do not<BR>
endanger those outside the combat area, and those inside are allowed to<BR>
leave. (Note that "allowed to leave" doesn't mean "free transportation".)<BR>
While an invasion is technically illegal, a short sharp invasion will often<BR>
be left to stand by the Imperium, if the Imperial judge views it as<BR>
increasing the long-term order of a subsector.<BR>
<BR>
Devastation. This is destroying a significant planetary asset of value to<BR>
the Imperium. Rarely used.<BR>
<BR>
Slavery. Actual chattel slavery is forbidden. Indentured servitude is not,<BR>
but indentures are not transferred to offspring. (Good plot hook: players<BR>
are on a world where indentured servitude is common. Someone throws them a<BR>
baby, hoping that they will take it offworld before it runs up a debt for<BR>
clothing, schooling, food... What do the players do?)<BR>
<BR>
Imperial Trespass. Violating an interdiction, trespassing on an Imperial<BR>
base, and so forth.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There are also a great number of Imperial Regulations covering licensing<BR>
for starships, safety requirements for Imperial Ports, and so on. I usually<BR>
invent these as necessary, under the principle that the Imperium regulates<BR>
in the interests of promoting order and trade. Imperial Ministries don't<BR>
have enough staff to enforce complete complience, and usually rely on<BR>
planetary governments for most of the enforcement work. (For example, most<BR>
starship safety inspectors are actually part of a planetary government, not<BR>
an Imperial body.)<BR>
<BR>
Technological restrictions are covered by Imperial regulations.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There's more, but this is getting long and I still have two tests to set.<BR>
Let me know if you want more.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:45:20 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Pronunciation Guide<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Note:<BR>
> IMTU, the Imperium has a list of defined pronunciations for all<BR>
> Imperial Systems, Planets and even Starports. These pronunciations<BR>
> are encoded into every starship Library program, with the intent<BR>
> to forestall confusion in the giving of orders to military units.<BR>
> These defined pronunciations are matched up with defined spellings<BR>
> and locations, so an Admiral should never order his Commodore to<BR>
> set course for Algine and end up heading for Elgin.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
This is why today's military talks in terms of UTM coordinates instead of<BR>
place names.<BR>
<BR>
There must be some unambiguous coodinate system for the 3I to describe<BR>
locations in space with precision, but I have no idea what it is. I assume<BR>
that the paths of stars as they move through a galaxy are different enough<BR>
to cause difficulties in using them for reference points. A more difficult<BR>
problem (perhaps?) is to precisely describe a location on an arbitrary<BR>
planet. UTM coordinates are tailored to the Earth. If you need accuracies<BR>
down to the centimeter or even the meter, say for accurately targeting<BR>
artillery, you need a very precise way to describe where the observer, the<BR>
target, and the gun are.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine the difficulties in accurately calculating firing data on some<BR>
worlds. When I went to gunnery school years ago at Ft. Sill, we learned how<BR>
to calculate corrections for a wide range of errors: those caused by the<BR>
spinning round drifting to one side, those caused by the different wind<BR>
speeds at different elevations, and even for the Earth rotating under the<BR>
shell while it's in the air. You will need lots of local data to make<BR>
gunnery precise on arbitrary planets from these factors and others. I assume<BR>
that the Imperial Marines have come up with a solution, however.<BR>
<BR>
Not really connected to how to pronounce system names, was it?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:07:38 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Sten series<BR>
<BR>
At 12:40 AM 11/17/99 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>Yet another series: the Sten Series, by Cole and Bunch. This is a much more<BR>
>"Epic Space Opera"... larger than life, full of action, with extensive<BR>
>travel times, big fleets, and fighters.... but with a good look at the<BR>
>roles of various types of space military personell. The Imperium here is<BR>
>led by the "Eternal Emperor" (who is, in a way, truly eternal), who rules a<BR>
>laizze-faire capitalist imperium by controlling the fuel source of choice.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
A great series up until the last book. I mean, the Empire has run perfectly<BR>
well for thousands of years, and then Sten decides to destroy the whole<BR>
basis of the Empire the first time there is a major problem rather than fix<BR>
the problem. What, the six months to a couple of years it would have taken<BR>
for the new clone to form was too long?<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:08:26 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
>You aren't thinking "big" enough. Maybe they fell into an alternate<BR>
>universe. Maybe they've annoyed Powers Man was Not Meant To Know. Maybe<BR>
>they are the victims of a botched mindwipe.<BR>
><BR>
>The second is sort of what I was thinking. We are talking *literally*<BR>
>Cosmic Conspiracy here. <BR>
<BR>
Another possibility, though one done to death recently in movies: the<BR>
altered reality the PCs find themselves in is a virtual reality sim --<BR>
or was it the one they remember *before* the change??? Again from my<BR>
supers game, one scenario had the heroes finally penetrate the inner<BR>
sanctum of the entity pulling the strings behind the conspiracy. A huge<BR>
battle follows, at the end of which only one PC is left standing, and<BR>
him just barely. As soon as he hits the exit, he sees the words<BR>
<BR>
GAME OVER<BR>
<BR>
appear in mid-air -- then all the PCs wake up in the lab, having just come<BR>
out of a VR sim in which they played a group of super-heroes, with Omnitech<BR>
(the evil company behind the conspiracy) being their employer. (It turned<BR>
out that everything past the point where they went into the lower levels<BR>
of the Omnitech building to meet the evil entity running the show was the<BR>
actual VR sim -- the PCs had to figure their way out of it by themselves.<BR>
this *could* be done in a Traveller setting...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:12:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Riot Control Agents<BR>
<BR>
- --- Mark Urbin <eclipse@ultranet.com> wrote:<BR>
>  >Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com> types out on his<BR>
> Sayat designed weasel <BR>
> powered keyboard:<BR>
>  >- --- cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com> wrote:<BR>
>  >> >Real world items:<BR>
>  >> ><BR>
>  >> >A derivative of one of the high blood pressure<BR>
>  >> meds. It slowly lowers<BR>
>  >> >your blood pressure. After a while, you get<BR>
> faint<BR>
>  >> if you are standing.<BR>
>  >> >So you sit down (or fall down) after more time,<BR>
> you<BR>
>  >> are faint even<BR>
>  >> >sitting up, so you lie down or fall down. Now,<BR>
> you<BR>
>  >> are flat on your<BR>
>  >> >back, and getting over excited will tend to<BR>
> make<BR>
>  >> you pass out. Now the<BR>
>  >> >riot police can collect you.<BR>
>  >Great, except that old people and kids will get<BR>
> killed<BR>
>  >by it! This is the sort of problem that's stopped<BR>
> such<BR>
>  >chemical solutions being used nowadays.<BR>
> <BR>
> In particularly oppressive governments, this may not<BR>
> be considered a 'bad' <BR>
> side effect.<BR>
> It culls the work force of ineffectives.<BR>
> <BR>
> Such government typically keep a tight rein on the<BR>
> media, so they don't <BR>
> worry about the bad press.<BR>
> <BR>
Of course, Mark, you're right, but I assumed we were<BR>
talking about non-lethal ways to supress riots? After<BR>
all, if you don't care about lives of "rebels" or bad<BR>
press, you will use _lethal_ means to suppress the<BR>
peasantry (just look at Chechnya today). More<BR>
democratic governments are the ones doing research<BR>
into such things, since they have scruples and the<BR>
poeple have long memories; at the same time as the<BR>
British invented rubber bullets, the Germans invented<BR>
Zyklon B, and thirty years after Kent State, we still<BR>
remember. But do the Russians remember Vorkuta?<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:18:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: modern roleplayers<BR>
<BR>
> Vampire can (like every RPG) be used in many<BR>
> different ways. <BR>
Very true, Jens. But I don't think any of us are<BR>
saying the games _have_ to be depressing and weird,<BR>
merely that the structure of the game, the tone of the<BR>
writing in the texts, mean they'll tend to be done<BR>
that way. I eman, nowhere in AD&D Player's Guide does<BR>
it say, "you are only allowed to do dungeon crawls."<BR>
You can have a D&D character who never slays anything;<BR>
he'll just go up levels rather slowly, is all.<BR>
<BR>
> I agree with the "tragic hero" idea somewhat, but<BR>
> that doesn't need to<BR>
> hold true for every character in a game <BR>
The problem being that the "tragic hero" is a loner...<BR>
how does the traditional "party" work then?<BR>
<BR>
Glad to hear the games work for you; I just can't<BR>
imagine how, but perhaps that reveals more about me,<BR>
than the game?<BR>
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:20:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Another possibility, though one done to death recently in movies: the<BR>
>altered reality the PCs find themselves in is a virtual reality sim --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but a cliche like that is great... *especially* since you can stand<BR>
that one up on its head through some clever manipulation.<BR>
<BR>
The players *think* that their characters are in a simulation, but through<BR>
some means they discover (perhaps incorrectly) that they aren't actually in<BR>
a simulation anymore...<BR>
<BR>
You want paranoia? That's paranoia.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:25:49 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: OT:  AD$D Forgotten Realms<BR>
<BR>
I have heard rumors that there is a forgotten realms mailing list as<BR>
well.  Can any of you tell me how to find it?  I have scoured the web<BR>
and found references to several of them but they were dead.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:42:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Travelleresque Fiction<BR>
<BR>
>like a Tom Clancy in Space adventure. The Third part of the story is due<BR>
out >in June of 99. It's going to be a long wait.<BR>
><BR>
>Dennis<BR>
<BR>
Wow! Not out until June of 2099, That will be a long wait!<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:45:28 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: AD$D Forgotten Realms<BR>
<BR>
Check out:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.wizards.com/lists/welcome.asp<BR>
<BR>
if you haven't already.<BR>
<BR>
The "official" Realms list moved last spring to a server controlled by wotc.<BR>
I dropped off the list at that time. The list owners instituted a whole<BR>
bunch manditory keywords which irritated me for some strange reason. You had<BR>
to use a specific keyword with *every single post.* I much prefer the<BR>
mature, mostly self-policing TML.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:04:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
okay, that's heaps for the fiction... anybody got any<BR>
Traveller-like music? I know, I know, it depends on<BR>
the feel of the campaign, is it Star Trek/Star<BR>
Wars/Aliens or something else? In other games I've had<BR>
"mood music", just thought it might be good in<BR>
Traveller, too...<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:07:11 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: off to the Races<BR>
<BR>
Of course, as well as limit them to astrolabes, you<BR>
can limit the tech otherwise. Anybody ever see the<BR>
episode of DS9 where Cisko and his kid flew the old<BR>
Bajoran ship? Kind of a space age Thor Heyerdahl... a<BR>
bit like nowadays, where speedboats are not raced<BR>
against each-other as often as sail boats....<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:09:03 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
> Thanks to the "kindness" of Jo Grant, I got to read<BR>
Gateway to the Stars<BR>
> this last year.  If I<BR>
> may paraphrase my classical Chinese instructor<BR>
> (speaking about something<BR>
> else), "This is the worst book from hell I could<BR>
> ever possibly imagine,<BR>
> ever."<BR>
> <BR>
> Kenji<BR>
<BR>
Hey, Kenji, from small acorns and all that...<BR>
Everything's gotta start somewhere....<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:23:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-like fiction<BR>
<BR>
>okay, that's heaps for the fiction... anybody got any<BR>
>Traveller-like music? I know, I know, it depends on<BR>
>the feel of the campaign, is it Star Trek/Star<BR>
>Wars/Aliens or something else? In other games I've had<BR>
>"mood music", just thought it might be good in<BR>
>Traveller, too...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Well, for me it is any form of Speed Metal, Heavy Metal, Celtic Rock,<BR>
Blues, Ray Stevens etc.<BR>
    Speed Metal for Small Scale Ship-to-Ship Combat, as I tend to use very<BR>
close ranges, short rounds, & high damage.  As I tend to run a game with<BR>
more than one ship.  (Right now they have a pair of Far Traders, a Patrol<BR>
Cruiser, & a Scout.  Yes, I know it is kinda munchie, but I do use TNEs<BR>
rules for gaining ships in a CT/MT universe.)<BR>
    Heavy Metal for Large Scale Ship-to-Ship Combat & ground combat.<BR>
    Blues, Celtic Rock, Ray Stevens for mood music.<BR>
    Etc, well that depends upon the band in the bar.  *weg*<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"A man may fight for many things; his country, his principles, his friends,<BR>
the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd<BR>
mudwrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock, and a stack of<BR>
French porn." - Edmund Blackadder<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings, they did it by<BR>
killing all those who opposed them<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:26:28 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
> There must be some unambiguous coodinate system for<BR>
> the 3I to describe<BR>
> locations in space with precision, but I have no<BR>
> idea what it is. I assume<BR>
> that the paths of stars as they move through a<BR>
> galaxy are different enough<BR>
> to cause difficulties in using them for reference<BR>
> points. <BR>
Yes, stars do move, but they typically move with a<BR>
velocity of something like 300 km/sec, which is faster<BR>
than you can run, but still slow year-to-year. At that<BR>
speed, it would take a 3,250 years for a star to be a<BR>
parsec away from where it was. I always assumed this<BR>
was the reason that starships came out of jump far<BR>
from the target system, in case it have moved since<BR>
they were last there! And that this was a good side<BR>
effect of being able to jump only 1-6 parsecs at a<BR>
time, along your way somewhere you could stop, have a<BR>
look around and adjust your aim for the next jump.<BR>
<BR>
A more difficult<BR>
> problem (perhaps?) is to precisely describe a<BR>
> location on an arbitrary<BR>
> planet. UTM coordinates are tailored to the Earth.<BR>
> If you need accuracies<BR>
> down to the centimeter or even the meter, say for<BR>
> accurately targeting<BR>
> artillery, you need a very precise way to describe<BR>
> where the observer, the<BR>
> target, and the gun are.<BR>
Well, when I was in the infantry, maybe our armies<BR>
Down Under aren't such good shots, but we used to have<BR>
spotters who'd say, fire on this spot, and then adjust<BR>
the gunner's aim for them. As for co-ordinates, you<BR>
can just do what the IAU has done and choose an<BR>
abitrary crater or mountain on a world as "greenwich<BR>
meridian", and of course the equator and poles are<BR>
easy to put on the map... The only difficulty would be<BR>
on worlds with frequently changing features, such as<BR>
Europa or Io, but hopefully there'd be not too many<BR>
battles on such worlds...<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1362<BR>
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